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odwalla superfood
Jacob Posted at 2005/12/27 3:44am reply to

Jacob
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Looks like odwalla superfood (the drink) is vegan now.  I wonder if it's because of the email I sent them a long time ago or because it's cheaper this way....
mattabo71 Posted at 2005/12/27 9:42am reply to

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That would be good news -- I used to like that stuff...... but - buying it supports Coca-Cola these days.
(the new issue of VegNews just reminded me of all the corporate b.s.)
gabe0922 Posted at 2006/01/15 5:53pm reply to

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I agree.  Thumbs down to Odwalla.  I was hoping it wasn't true, but I also saw the article in VegNews and was heart broken. There were also many other companies mentioned that have given into the dark side and all the "corporate bs" like While Wave (Silk), Muir Glen, Lightlife(GimmeLean) and Boca (no surprise there).  Mango Tango was the best!angry
simon Posted at 2006/01/16 2:58pm reply to

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I heard there was a website that catalogs this kind of info. anyone know about this?
Jamie Posted at 2006/01/16 10:19pm reply to

Jamie
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Gabe (and whoever else),

what do you mean by the "dark side" and "corporate b.s."  ??

I know everyone talks about hating big corporations, but sometimes I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be hating them.

I understand some of the basic facts about why they aren't good, but where is the line drawn?  Is every corporation bad?  Or is it just every big corporation?  Does "big" mean a certain number of employees or just a mentality?  

Would most small corporations get bigger and make more money if they could?  

Does that mean that shopping at co-ops and non-profits is the moral thing to do?

Just some things think about.  I don't have it all worked out in my head, but I don't want to hate something and not be able to back up my argument.
Jacob Posted at 2006/01/16 11:02pm reply to

Jacob
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personally, I like think Naked taste better than Odwalla, and it's cheaper, but the only reason I was mad at Odwalla was because their superfood wasn't vegan.  I'm glad that Odwalla can be distributed to more grocery stores now because of Coca-Cola and I hope that Coca-Cola doesn't ruin their company, and so far I haven't seen anything bad.  
Plus, another cool thing about Odwalla is they have larger containers for some of their juices which is pretty rare for a non-pasteurized juice company.  If I could find some goodflow in large containers or some organic juices, I'd be a lot happier.
Ross Posted at 2006/01/17 7:16am reply to

Ross
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i can see both sides of the issue, but i still tend to see most of those core companies as the "dark side." Like Coca Cola, I definitely despise particularly in that they practically own countries like Mexico(not to mention the President Vicente Fox was the former president of Coca Cola in Mexico), they support bullfighting, and convince entire populations to get hooked on this utter crap of a drink, as well as the scary things they put in diet cola. Now this stuff isn't limited to Coke, as all the other soft drink makers pretty put the same stuff in, but I dislike them as well. With companies like Whitewave, they're owned by the biggest dairy corporation in the country, who certainly we have reasons as vegans to dislike, because of the mass inhumane treatment to dairy cows being pumped full of hormones and strapped to machines, with chronically swollen, inflamed utters, etc. I know that if you just buy soymilk instead of milk you're supporting the soymilk side of things and the company will react to demand, but it still sits in the back of my head, "maybe I should be buying from a different company."

Not every corporation is inherently bad(this goes along with my sort of study of Whole Foods, which I still need to post my paper on), but simply by the nature of the system, money is what pays off in the end, and it is inherently the focus of any further progression. it really lies within the investors' hands, and typically the reason they're investing is for money, not for any moral purpose in the company. it's not impossible, but it is certainly a rare thing for a group of investors to focus things toward a moral intent.

that's a short take on the issue for me
mattabo71 Posted at 2006/01/17 3:13pm reply to

mattabo71
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>
>I know everyone talks about hating big corporations, but sometimes I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be hating them.


I am not into the idea of hating a company just b/c it is suucsessful. I think there are some responsible big companies -- I think Whole Foods is a good example of one- perhaps Costco is another.
Let me be more specific, and borrow more info from VegNews that we were talking about:

Lightlife: ( "gimmelean" fake meats) - owned by one of the nation's top beef producers, ConAgra. So giving them money is giving money to an industry that vegans are trying to avoid.

White Wave: ("Silk" and other soy products) - owned by one of the nations largest dairy producers, Dean foods. See above.

Boca: (BocaBurgers, ect) - owned by Kraft- which is owned by Phillip Morris (hiding behind the name Altria). Many people are not interested in giving money to "big tobacco" for ethical reasons.

Odwalla: Owned by Coca-Cola. What's so bad about Coke? They are notorious for contaminating the water supply in developing countries such as India. They have been implicated in the murder of labor activists in Columbia. They have exploited the American public school systems need of funds to the point of absurdity- and have managed to get their products not only into the cafeterias and hallways, but even poorly disguised adverts into the classrooms and curricula.

The other problem with buying big biz's products is that it is often hard to know who is profiting off of your support -- b/c often companies that you do not want to support are the major shareholders of a seemingly acceptable company --- examples:
Chipotle Grill = once a small local Denver eatery- then huge investments making McDonald's the main shareholder enables it to spread over the country.

Cascadian Farms/Muir Glen = love that they have organic stuff- but their main shareholders are Phillip Morris, Exxon-Mobil, McDonalds

Silk (again) = main shareholders are Phillip Morris, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and Exxon-mobil

Hain Foods= (this one hurts, it includes all of these products: Terra chips, Garden of Eatin', Health Valley, Westsoy, Earth's Best, Westbrae Natural, Imagine, and Yves Veggie cuisine) investors include Phillip Morris, Wal-Mart, Exxon-Mobil, and Montsano(a truly evil company that is all about GMO's)

It's a tough situation, b/c when I speak to people who are trying to go veg for the first time -- I will recommned many of these products, b/c I think mock meats and soy creamy things are  great transitional foods for someone who is wanting to go veg.
And there is the argument that maybe these meat and tobacco purveyors are trying to find healthier ways to keep their companies in business - and by buying their vegan products we are showing a strong market force that encourages them to be more responsible ---- but I'm not fully sold on that concept.
HOWEVER, I know that I do not completely avoid all of these items myself --- but knowing about them helps me cut down on buying their items, and ultimately is healthier b/c it keeps me away from all of these highly processed foods.
simon Posted at 2006/01/17 7:08pm reply to

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funnily enough a few of us where i am were talking about this earlier. It is a complex argument and perhaps too complex, as matt suggested, for when you start being vegan.

However, many (but not all) corporations practice unethical (but legal) policies relating to labor, sourcing of raw materials, pollution, tax, human rights, who they do business with, how they do business, etc. - so that in the end it really comes down to defining your own personal morals and ethics and shopping accordingly. This will have a big impact and at worse ease your conscience.

If in doubt, buy locally (or used on ebay/craigslist for example), from people you know and respect and avoid processed/packaged foods which are inevitably owned by the major corporations (or at least will be soon).

- a good place to start researching a company's practices is at the corpwatch website. luckily there are plenty of alternatives.

- a good place to get a background on corporations and their practices is by watching the corporation

The point at which a corporation starts acting unethically is debatable, but a good indicator is after it becomes publically traded on the stock market, where it's stock values is directly based upon it's quarterly profits/losses. This is going to add a lot of pressure to make profit "at any cost" as the only way to keep making a larger profit and compete is to reduce costs. in an unregulated or under-regulated market, this will result in a "race to the bottom",.


simon Posted at 2006/03/31 12:50pm reply to

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pete Posted at 2006/03/31 3:18pm reply to

pete
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This is definitely a good topic that deserves to be kept going. In the meantime, remember that the vegetarian food company Amy's is privately and family owned. They sell mostly frozen food, but also soups, tomato sauce, and salsa. Most of it is either organic or at least GMO-free., and a good portion of their products are vegan. Cooking your own food will, of course, be more economical and less chance of cross-contamination; but if you're not up for that, Amy's is an option. I'm sure there are smaller vegan companies out there that haven't gone public/corporate owned, too.

Besides that, the best thing to do is what Simon says (pun intended): shop local and/or used. Farmer's markets, too.

P.S. Another cool thing about Amy's is that they're available nationwide.
simon Posted at 2006/03/31 5:46pm reply to

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I spoke to a couple of people at wheatsville about it and they are trying to label more items as local and independent. Personally I'd like the idea of transparency and I'm going to go to the next board meeting when i figure out when and where it is (conflicting info, but monthly)

Something to note is that the wheatsville policy is not to boycott products (except for animal tested products, which was something voted in by the members).  
  



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